Typical Army of not addressing the real issues. Quote zaurus Members 280 Gender:Male Posted June 6, 2020 Alice's restaurant Expect to get yelled at for shit you have no control over. Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. If retention suffers too much, the Army will face a pilot production shortfall that will add to the existing shortage. Due to the extreme demand produced by the GWOT, ground formations are insatiable with their demand for aviation support. Moving to a random Air Force Base for less than 1 year while Awaiting Pilot Training (APT), Moving to a base for 6-10 months for initial aircraft qualification. Instead, the aviation branch has proposed to boost aviation career incentive pay, or flight pay, which can retain more qualified aviators, he said. I wish thiswasa little more clear. Im a senior NCO with two decades of experience and proven loyalty to the nation and her army. Such changes may affect my status, Note: The waiver authority for this requirement is the Commanding General, U.S. Army Aviation Center, Fort Rucker, AL 36362-5000. . No products in the cart. They used their experience to mentor and groom all the other warrants around them including myself. If the Army rescinds this ADSO and reverts to the original six-year obligation, it will have six years to develop solutions to increase retention. Its creepy; Im scared Ill go to get out and theyll be like nah man you have 3 more years. How can I show that my BrADSO wasnt taken? There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. The AvB is essential to retain Officers with an Army aeronautical rating, who are critical to the overall success of the Army's mission. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can . In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. As a good mentor, I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. Therefore, this option is virtually free for Aviation officers. We should approach our congressmen to change the re-entry rules to allow ATPs. 10 years after flight school graduation. This is the second part of a series about choosing between military and civilian career options. Army is trying to get payback for their costs, but that will be increasingly hard to do if airlines are hiring. With 21 years as a Soldier and 10 years reviewing cost estimates for all equipment tests, Mr. Ysa Garza said everyone always has to be safety conscience in his role as an additional duty safety . By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Looks like 11-11.5 year total commitment. It must continue to remove burdens that plague the warrant officer community, such as non-pilot-related duties and frequent deployments to combat training centers. By ROTC Scholars have a 4-year commissioning ADSO. 10 U.S. Code 2114: Graduates of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences incur an ADSO of at least 7 years. Well, when you have a system that initially punishes critical thinking, then requires it later on down the line, you're creating your own problem that ends up causing its own problems. F-22 crew chief: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe. The service obligation begins on the date an officer attains an aeronautical rating of Army aviator or is removed from attendance, whichever is earlier.. The root cause cited by those transitioning at various levels has related to toxic climates, mismanagement of professional profiles, quality of life, and unit culture. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? Regarding the future Army Commissioned Lts in wishing to branch aviation, that will be an issue next year. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. By policy, the Army must review the AvB program quarterly to determine the program's effectiveness. As several others have said, this policy fails to address the root problems high OPTEMPO, poor quality of life, irrelevant mandatory training, etc. Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..? The Army should be able to meet their quota through CAREER Enlisted personnel ONLY if they must. It will harm recruiting and we will continue to bleed talent into the civilian aviation market. While I really want to be an aviator, the thought of being TOTALLY LOCKED IN until I'm 34 is terrifying. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. One problem with pilots is that we don't age well (I'm not a military aviator, just a private pilot) so there would be an issue of reaching a physical condition expiration date at some point. The USMA/ROTC graduating cadets will make the decision on the 12 year commitment in 2021. Army Aviation Leaders should. Traditionally, the Army has not struggled to recruit pilots. reenlistment document. This puts you right at your commissioning ADSO plus the three-year CSP ADSO. The Army increased monthly pilot pay from a maximum of $850 per month to $1000 per month, offered $35,000 annual bonuses to qualified warrant officers who extend for three years, and reduced combined training center rotations to two per twelve-month period for each combat aviation brigade. The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. It only increases your overall training costs because typically you have less time available to retain these people. I spend almost 20 years missing opportunities due to family, deployments, school, and fear to change. Your link has been automatically embedded. That being said, they let you fly as your primary duty and fly cooler airframes. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? Full disclosure, I was a street to seat Warrant that served for 24 years. In my first year and a half after flight school I flew over 500 hours. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? West Point graduates have a 5 year commissioning ADSO. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. , I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. This of course will do nothing to fix the problem of toxic leaders, poor assignment choices, or any of the other issues. 9 month rotations are followed by field time, followed by gunnery, followed by EIB, followed by a CTC, etc. I think it would be a great idea to leverage senior NCOs to enter pilot training with a waiver. I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. The Army must also capture the opinions of those it can still retain. We are very, very interested in seeing more applications, he added. For anyone interested in becoming a warrant officer, individuals should contact a warrant officer recruiter or visit the Armys Warrant Officer Recruiting website. Just sign away your life until you're 34!". NG will have 10 years. I'm good at doing Army things and I enjoy them too, but I don't know if I can commit so much of my life before I've even had my first real taste of being an officer. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. This can exceed a 6 year obligation. A chief warrant officer 3 with eight years of service earns $5093.70 per month, whereas a captain with eight years of service earns $6435.00 per month, a difference of $1,341.30 in favor of non-Army pilots. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. Final thoughts the social aspect of the Army has never been worse. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. C-17 formation from the ramp: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop. That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. These figures do not include initial trainingthey solely account for the time and cost associated with the platform-specific training. (USASOC) Commissioned and warrant officers who enter flight training starting in October will incur a 10-year service obligation once they become rated Army aviator s, according to guidance. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation, from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. Can you imagine thesmile on more than a few faces of the last graduating class in Fy 2020 in September. These could range from 6 months to two years, depending on the type of aircraft hes flying. Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. My ORB says a date 6 years from my AD start date, which Im pretty sure is wrong. c. Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates accepti ng an appoint in the Regular Army or a Reserve Appointment with a concurrent call to active duty incur a 3-year ADSO (see AR 350 . I'm in better shape today than I was 10 years ago. What I would propose is to change the flight school is conducted to make it cheaper and make it easier to increase throughput. There are more than enough fully qualified CAREER ENLISTED personnel from the 5 services, waiting in the wings, so to speak, to apply for the WOFT program. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. There is still an aviation bonus for mid career tracked guys, and while some success has been had with that, I dont know if theyve gotten the response desired for the blood money though. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. USMA graduates accepting an appointment in the Regular Army incur a 5-year ADSO (10 USC 4348). Anyone who does a modicum of research will quickly discover that our aviation culture is objectively inferior to the other services. The earlier you can, INTERVIEW PREP PACKAGE (eCourse + 1-on-1's), 1 HOUR INTERVIEW PREP ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), 1 HOUR APP REVIEW ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop, The Ultimate Guide to Earning a Pilot Slot in Air Force ROTC, Part 1, As Stan would be finishing up his 5-year ADSC, hed need to be shopping for Guard and Reserve UPT board announcements on. At the same time it could drive a shortage of Aviation Officers, but if they're going to leave the Army anyway. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. Aircraft like the E-3 dont have many bases. This doesnt exactly seem legally right. Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may If Stan becomes an engineer in the Air Force, hed probably have to attend some sort of training right after graduating from college. for a discussion of these options and their advantages.) I bet less than 300 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. That's my 2 cents. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can receive the Graduate School Option. It is the cheapest method for increasing retention rates, delivers a long-term investment in human capital, and provides a more predictable model for pilot production requirements. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. So here I am, considering branching aviation when all of a suddenBAM! I'm roaring and ready to go. On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. The Modern War Institute does not screen articles to fit a particular editorial agenda, nor endorse or advocate material that is published. Lasting solutions must come in the form of quality of life and quality of service improvements. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. It seems the 10 year ADSO is now official. Brennan Randelis a captain in the United States Army and is the former commander of Alpha Company, 4-2 Attack Battalion stationed at Camp Humphreys, South Korea. The army has never been good at personnel management. If you want military aviation to be a part of your life for more than 10 years, possibly even 20+ years, you should pursue any path that will get you there! I don't know too many that would care to be told to mop the floor of the pilot's office, fill the refrigerator, go help wash the aircraft the things that junior warrants typically do when they are new to a unit out of flight school. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. Im a turd for putting 2021. United States, and the U.S. Army Re-serve, unless otherwise stated. In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. D. Your email address will not be published. More than likely, the aviations slots will be filled by personnel lower on the OML. I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. Very true. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator, according to an all Army activity message published Aug. 12. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. That's not what I am talking about. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. 4 years closer to RTAG if they're hiring. If people don't want to serve, you are actually harming readiness, not helping it. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. With a 10 year ADSO and an 8 year max time in service requirementit significantly reduces the in house pool as well. However, Army aviation should not be compared with the other military branchesnot least because of the widely varying costs of producing pilots. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. The BRADSO and PADSO portions of CSP remain in effect. Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this enlistment/ Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. It never ends. It's kinda like a Yelp! If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. It didn't help that the CSA took advantage of his own program by taking private military flight lessons and was awarded his pilots wings while a 4 star. Having been out of college for at least 5 years at the start of UPT, its more likely that Stan will have a spouse and kidsmaking the very busy year at UPT even more challenging. These trips have to be funded at his own expense and would require him to use leave that wont be available for family trips. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? Thank you for your time and have a great rest of your day! Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. The increased ADSO only harms this effort further. If I am a scholarship Cadet, I understand that upon completion of my initial 4 year ROTC ADSO, I . And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. I'm not ignoring anything that has been posted within this thread -- again, it's all been awesome -- but I want to feel as sure as possible that the opinions expressed here are an accurate assessment of the average Army Aviation experience. Did ROTC, then Aviation, allegedly 6 years upon completion of flight training. Perhaps it's just for RLOs but don't count on that. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. Does anyone know the current selection breakdown of street to seat vs prior service? More career Enlisted apply than street2seat on a yearly basis. After AFIT, Stan would owe a payback for school and might have to serve longer than his 5-year non-pilot ADSC. Due to the flight school ADSO and timeline, you will be on active duty for about 7 years in order to fulfill the obligations incurred through flight training. Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. Wonder if you can get out early if NOT making CW3 or must you hang around. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. It does have the potential to get him to the airlines more quickly, and hed do all of his military flying in the Guard or Reserve (with Quality of Life far superior to Active Duty, in most cases). Can you hear the roar of approval erupting from Army doctors across the globe serving out their decade plus commitments? The views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect the official position of the United States Military Academy, Department of the Army, or Department of Defense. The institution of the new ADSO stands in testimony to a DOD organization entrenched in process and procedure at the expense of adjustment to any current reality.