The competition is timed, so first round hits are ideal, but theres more to these competitions than small shot groups. Its release as a commercial round was presaged by a number of successful 6mm wildcats like the 6mm AR based on the Grendel. I had always been told you need a certain length barrel for certain calibers. The rifle and cartridge performed beautifully and Snows column about the whole project appeared in the August 2010 issue of Outdoor Life. Both use the same 6mm/.243 diameter bullets, but the 6mm Creedmoor was specifically designed to use longer, heavier, and more aerodynamic projectiles. The 6mm ARC also performs better in wind. 6mmARC, 6mmGT, 6mmXC and the 6 creed. The other big difference between these cartridges is that the 6mm and 6.5mm Creedmoor were both purpose built as competition shooting cartridges and were designed to use the longest and heaviest bullets available for their caliber without intruding into the powder column. If youre looking for a round that can do it all, then the ARC is the one you want. The Perfect 6.5 mm Cartridge The 6.5 mm Super LR is a 6.5 mm wildcat cartridge with a powder capacity of 55.5 gr of water weight (i.e. This is especially true when relative availability of the 2 cartridges during the ongoing ammo shortage are taken into account. This article contains the load data for the 6 Dasher based on a survey of over 100 of the top-ranked long range shooters in the country. out of 25 shooters9 picked the 6 creed as the least recoiling round.8 picked the 6XC6 6mm GT2 6mm ARCThe 6mm ARC was built in a Howa action and the 6mm Creed was in a Howa action. Take a look at any good ballistics program Hornady and Federal both have an easy-to-use program on their websitesand you'll see the advantage of the better B.C. I'm not disputing his numbers, because no 2 guns are the same, and he may be using his own loads where I'm shooting factory ammo. Federal has 6.5 Creedmoor factory-loaded ammo, including the American Eagle 140-grain Match bullet. Other shooters took notice of how well the rifle and cartridge performed during PRS competitions that year and began ordering 6mm Creedmoor rifles from Gardner. Employee communication . This is one of those cases where I think doing that really makes sense in the short term. Compared to 5.56 NATO, the 6mm ARC offers substantially less drop and wind deflection and provides the ability to shoot much more accurately at longer distances. Since the two cartridges are virtual ballistic twins, theyre both suitable for hunting the same sort of game under the same conditions. Regardless of whether youre using a .243 Winchester, a 6mm Creedmoor, or a 6.5mm Creedmoor, no pronghorn or deer will go far if you put a well constructed bullet into the vitals. I would have to get dies, brass, and bullets to reload for the 6mm ARC. For all the reasons mentioned is why I went with a 6x47 Lapua for a bolt gun. Just a quick run through GRT shows the ARC topping out at ~2400 and 6CM around 2700. You can get a 6 to 6.5 pound rifle which can shoot high B.C. The general rule of thumb for caliber to animal size, is 6mm, 243 Win, 270 Win and up for any smaller CXP2 type antelope, and 30-06 Spingfield or larger for CXP3 medium to large game. Ammo and rifles arent impossible to find, but theyre much harder to find than 6mm Creedmoor rifles and ammo right now. Mossberg 500 vs 590: Which Shotgun Is Right for You? To my way of thinking, we are splitting hairs ballistically, and as always the shooter will make all the difference. I'd say that for peak performance they do. Its not a magical cartridge, but the 6mm Creedmoor does provide real benefits over the 243 Winchester. However a 300WM will always beat a 308 given the same barrel length. So where do we stand overall with the .243 Winchester, 6mm Creedmoor, and 6.5mm Creedmoor? It features reinforced construction and stronger materials throughout, which should help it withstand the rigors of tournament play. The Eagle Eye 6.5 Creedmoor shoots a 130gr hybrid projectile with a .295 G7 at 2,960fps from an average 26" barrel. I know what. The 6.5 Creedmoor has a similar advantage over the 6mm Creedmoor in kinetic energy. Using dramatically less powder, it is believed that the barrel on an 6mm ARC will far outlast a 6mm Creedmoor's. It kicks less and has very similar performance regarding wind drift, which after accuracy and consistency is the biggest issue for long-range shooting. While the 6mm Creedmoor was very popular among PRS competitors, thats a relatively small market compared to the American shooting population as a whole. Shooters also cannot use bullets larger than .308 or with a velocity higher than 3,200 feet per second. Well yes, about 7% less velocity means a little bit less recoil. For the sake of discussion, why do you believe that the ARC will overtake the Grendel? These high velocity, rapidly expanding bullets arent really suitable for big game hunting, but theyre absolutely devastating on varmints and predators. Most 243 Win. I only get 2680fps out of my 22" barrel. As far as I know I the 6 CM has much more case capacity and higher operating pressures so I'd expect more velocity especially with longer barrels. 6mm ARC vs 6mm GT vs 6XC vs 6 Creedmoor Panther Hollow 2.85K subscribers Subscribe 213 Share 11K views 1 year ago PLEASE READ.. It's a good compromise in efficiency (a 105 going 2970fps w/34.8gr of Varget) good barrel life plus way easier on the brass. Thankfully though, there are many companies now including Hornady, Peterson, Starline and a few more, making 6mm Creedmoor brass cases. It also has a relatively low muzzle velocity, so it is not as effective at long range as some other calibers. Another factor to consider when choosing a caliber is recoil. You can push a 6mm arc a little harder than the factory offerings in a bolt gun, and in fact, the hornady reloading manual has two separate sections for loading the 6mm arc, (gas gun/bolt gun) based on maximum pressures of 55k, and 63k, (if my memory serves), but even at the 63k, it lags well behind the 6mm creedmoor. In a word, yes. However, the extra recoil is not enough to make the Creedmoor unmanageable for most shooters. In this article, Im going to discuss the pros and cons of the 6mm Creedmoor cartridge in detail. The 6mm Advanced Rifle Cartridge (ARC) is a new cartridge by Hornady in 2020. In addition to their ammo intended for competition shooting, Nosler also recently began offering factory loaded 6mm Creemoor hunting ammunition. In a 10-mph crosswind the 6mm ARC 108-grain bullet drifts 10.9 inches at 400 yards. So an 6mm ARC @58k psi might get there. PS - If anyone needs a box of 6mm Creedmoor 105 gr BTHP Hornady BLACK, 20 rounds, and lives in Southeast Michigan, send me a PM, I'll give ya a good deal Click to expand. The fact that the case length of the 6mm Creedmoor is shorter than that of the 243 Win, but that it can be loaded to a higher rated max pressure of 62 000 PSI compared to the 60 000 PSI of the 243 Win, means that the newer, more modern longer bullets with higher BCs can be loaded further out in the 6mm Creedmoor before reaching the magazine max overall length, compared to the 243 Winchester. I think my buddy said 2700 fps rather than 2750 fps out of a 18" barrel. Like this unbelieveable 6mm Creedmoor of PRS Pro Shooter Jake Millard from Panhandle Precision who has recorded 2500 rounds through his 6mm Creedmoor and the rifle is still grouping well and shooting very low SD and ES as can be seen below: For safe reliable reloading data to start your load development journey with your 6mm Creedmoor, I would recommend working with the reloading data provided by either your powder manufacturer, like the Hodgdon reloading data portal, or the reloading data provided by your chosen bullet manufacturer. The oldest actual mention of the idea for a 6mm Creedmoor that is laid down in historical record, is this post on Snipershide by user skeetlee, known in real life as Greggory Lee Gardner of Lee Gardner Precision. He mentioned that he wants to invent a new cartridge by necking down a 6.5mm Creedmoor to a 6mm and that it would make a mean varmint cartridge. The first thing to consider when choosing a rifle caliber is what you will be using it for. This video or description may contain affiliate links. The 7mm obviously stands []. Makes for a crazy lightweight 6.5 grendel in their Howa carbon stalker Dec 8, 2021 #8 A Anschutz 0 Joined Mar 19, 2017 Messages 137 Location Fairbanks, AK Just playing in GRT, 6ARC would get 2400ish and the 6CM would get 2700ish. Video marketing. They decide that with their own hard-earned money. D DocT Joined similar to a .260 Remington) but with a long neck and the proven 30 degree shoulder angle that is seen so often in the top performing accuracy cartridges. The only way that works is if his arc barrel is very fast and the creed is super slow and loaded light, similar pressures the creed will outperform the arc every time now the arc will be more efficient. The 6mm ARC came in second place with an effective distance of 550 yards. That's why they chose the 6mm bullet. It offers the same stability factor as the industry-leading 105gr Hybrid Target and is a direct replacement for 1:8" twist barrels. If they offered a plus plus P (plus pressure) for bolt action rifles, another 100fps should be in reach. The 6.5 Creedmoor shoots 6.5mm/.264 class projectiles while the 6mm Creedmoor is necked down to shoot 6mm/.243. This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. Yes, the ARC is an incredibly powerful round that can take down even the largest animals with ease. bullets. I went with the 6 Creed for mine. I am mainly talking to felt recoil. The 6mm ARC produces a larger splash signature that allows shooters to self-spot impacts and make rapid adjustments. Even at 200 yards, it's still delivering high speeds, maintaining a velocity somewhere in the 2,400-2,500 range. The .220 Swift's effective distance came in at 275 yards. In fact, while the selection of 6.5 Creedmoor rifles and ammo are also good, things are as good, and maybe even a little better with the 6mm Creedmoor with the ongoing ammo shortage. 6.8 SPC. The Creedmoor in 6mm Creedmoor is named for the fact that it comes from a 6.5mm Creedmoor which has been necked down to accept a .243 bullet, the Creedmoor in 6.5mm Creedmoor originally comes from Creedmoor Sports, for whom the 6.5mm Creedmoor cartridge was developed by Hornady and Creedmoor Sports jointly. Like the .243 Winchester, the 6mm Creedmoor is also a really good varmint as well as big game hunting cartridge. That hornady chart looks to line up exactly where my numbers are. Create and promote branded videos, host live events and webinars, and more. Once this unconstitutional law is struck down or repealed, this restriction will be removed. In addition to Hornady, Barnes, Federal, Nosler, and Remington all currently produce 6mm Creedmoor factory ammo. The Lapua cartridges are for handloaders only, but Hornady offers match-grade 6mm and 6.5 Creedmoor ammunition. I've gone back and forth on the 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Rem, 6mm Dasher, and the 6XC so many time my head is spinning! Unlock the Benefits of Knowing Your Winchester Serial Number, Complete Buyers Guide to the Sig Sauer P228. With that said, lets take a closer look at the terminal ballistics of the two calibers in question. A shorter action and longer barrel life. How does an "avid reloader" figure a cartridge is capable of outperforming another cartridge that has 50% more case capacity? I shot 87 vmax mostly at 2900 fps or so iirc with 8208. It also has very little recoil, making it a great choice for shooters of all experience levels. Review: Hornady 6mm ARC. This makes it an excellent choice for long-range shooting, as it will maintain its velocity and energy over long distances. case, being based on the .257 Roberts hull, has slightly more powder capacity than the .243 Win., and it's therefore capable of imparting a bit more velocity. With barrels of equal lengths and a 200-yard zero, the 6.5 ELD Match bullet drops 6 inches more at 500 yards than the 6mm ELD Match. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. [5] The 6mm Creedmoor has a trajectory thats virtually the same as the .243 Winchester and significantly flatter than the 6.5 Creedmoor inside of 500 yards. For these reasons, long, heavy for caliber bullets will fit in the magazine and chamber in 6mm and 6.5mm Creedmoor rifles. Photo by Michael Anschuetz. If you want something to use for self-defense, however, you may want to consider something else. Why would a guy opt for the ARC over the Creedmoor in a bolt action? We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to amazon.com and affiliated sites. I shot a prs match with that setup back in September. These bullets arent quite as heavy and have a little bit lower BC than the Hornady ELD-X, but theyre still very aerodynamic and very accurate. The ability to make rapid follow up shots and quickly correct for misses is also extremely important. This means an average of 100 to 200 fps higher muzzle velocities from the better BC bullets out of the 6mm Creedmoor, so it beats the 243 Winchester in the energy, drop, windage and ballistics departments. The average muzzle energy of the 6mm ARC is about 2300 ft-lbs, while the average muzzle energy of the 6.5 Creedmoor is around 2700 ft-lbs. It also has a relatively low muzzle velocity, so it is not as effective at long range as some other calibers. Maximum pressure obtained from SAAMI (p23 and p26 for the .243 and 6.5 Creed) and here for the 6mm Creedmoor. I just dont think you could fit a 6 creed in an ar15 platform. What the 6mm Creedmoor absolutely excels at though, is those same small to medium CXP2 type animals, but at long range, with consistently expanding high-BC match bullets like the Hornady 108gr ELD-M or the Berger 105gr Hybrid Target. If youre in the market for a new rifle, youve probably come across the 6mm ARC and 6.5 Creedmoor calibers and are wondering which one is better. It seems like more and more 6mm Creedmoor ammo options for hunting are hitting the market each year. .5.56 is generally loaded to higher pressure than .223. The problem is that Hornady, which developed the 6 mm ARC, made a slight alteration to the case length so that it would be compatible with very long 6 mm bullets that have a high BC. TheHornady 10th Edition(p231-237 and p317-322) reloading manual was also used as a reference for the history of the cartridges and provided data to compare their size and recoil. On the other hand, 6mm Creedmoor rifles usually have a faster rifling twist (1:7.7 in the case of the Ruger Precision Rifle), so the cartridge is commonly available with 103 grain, 105 grain, 107 grain, 108 grain, and 112 grain bullets. Apple|Google|iHeart|Spotify|Stitcher. If you are looking for a versatile round that can be used for both target shooting and self-defense, the sixmm ARC is a good choice. The ARC is an incredibly versatile round that can be used for hunting a wide variety of game animals. It is also about the same size as a BB pellet. Basically, hunters can take any game with the 6mm Creedmoor that they could with the .243 Winchester like deer, pronghorn, and even elk in some cases. Having a chat with a buddy the other day who insisted that a 16" 6mm ARC would outperform a 16" 6mm Creedmoor using the same bullet (both in bolt guns). The sixmm ARC has enough stopping power to take down small game, but it is not ideal for self-defense against larger animals or humans. From the ballistic standpoint, the .244/6mm Rem. The 6mm 109's offer several advantages," said Bryan Litz, Berger's Chief Ballistician. So, the Creedmoor has about 17% more energy at the muzzle than the 6mm ARC. Also Available At: Brownells and Guns.com. Hornady recommends 1:9 twist or faster for its 105-grain A-Max and BTHP Match. I have a rifle being built for me right now, a Badrock but it is going to be late summer before I see it. you would be blown away at the number of people that picked the 6XC and the 6 creed. So, the Creedmoor has about 17% more energy at the muzzle than the 6mm ARC. I personally would choose a lighter bullets for coyotes. In a bolt action The 6 Creedmoor rifle is easier to come by in good rifles. Among others, this list includes the 103 grain ELD-X from Hornady, the 95 grain Barnes LRX BT, the 87 grain Hornady V-Max, and the 100gr Sierra GameKing. Originally dubbed the 6mm HOLE (Hornady-Outdoor Life Express), Snow paired the new cartridge with a custom rifle built by George Gardner of GA Precision in 2009. I get like 2550fps from my 18" 6mm arc ar15 shooting factory 108gr eld-m. The 6mm ARC gives hunters the ability to successfully hunt varmints and deer. bullets. Which it does pretty well within those limitations. As is the case with a handful of other newer cartridges, 6mm Creedmoor ammo has been much easier to find than 243 ammo throughout most of 2020 and 2021, even at the worst of the shortage. With just a minuscule .8 separating them, the two Creedmoor cartridges have almost an identical amount of wind drift. Bullet/B.C. Hornady's new 108 ELD-Match needs a twist of 1:8. Due to the fact that it uses the 6.5 Creedmoor as a parent case and performs similarly to the .243 Winchester, the 6mm Creedmoor is most often compared to those two cartridges. bullets of the 6mm Creedmoor. fps Burn % Pressure max 6mm ARC - Alliant Reloder-17 *T 109.3 30.9 2621 98.4 62000psi 6mm Creedmoor - Alliant Reloder-26 *C 102.3 47.8 2837 99.4 62000psi Ballistics are very similar for the 6mm Creedmoor and .243 Winchester inside 500 yards, but the 6mm Creedmoor is much better suited for longer range shots since it can use those more aerodynamic bullets. Both Cartridges have real advantages & disadvantages. It had a 2.23-inch case length, a .243-inch pointed soft point bullet diameter, and muzzle energy of 2,788J. While all three cartridges are known for their exceptional accuracy, the 6mm and 6.5mm Creedmoor cartridges are usually better suited to use high BC and high SD, heavy for caliber match grade hunting bullets than the .243 Winchester because of the aforementioned faster rifling twist in rifles chambered for those cartridges that stems from their target shooting roots. This is reflected in the prices, availability, and variety of factory ammunition and hunting rifles currently in production for each cartridge. Definitely not worth arguing. Your buddy has no idea what he's talking about. When you use the link above to shop for one of the products, we receive a small commission from the sale, at no extra cost to you. Been doing a little more experimenting 6mm ARC Complete Upper 20" SS Barrel and 6mm Reloading EVERYTHING! If youd rather listen than read, click the appropriate link below to listen to this episode on your preferred podcasting service. Looks like your prayers have been answered. There is also talk on a post over on Accurate Shooter forum by a person calling himself gnoble, that he built this or a very similar cartridge back in 2001 already by shortening a 243 Mashburn (I think he meant a 244 Mashburn). 25-06 vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 270 Winchester: The Results Might Surprise You, 6.5 PRC: Ultimate Guide To What You Need To Know. Loaded with a high BC 103 grain ELD-X bullet, 6mm Creedmoor Precision Hunter ammunition has a flatter trajectory and carries more energy down range than any other factory loads for 6mm Creedmoor hunting ammo currently available. We do deal with a lot of different cartridges and firearms so either he or I could be getting the numbers mixed up. 22-250 vs 223 vs 204 RUGER vs 220 SWIFT: CLASH OF THE SPEED DEMONS. Nosler provided the data used to compare the recoil of the .243 Winchester (here). This increased interest means that there are more people playing games on a regular basis, which should help keep the new ARC relevant for years to come. Dont underestimate the impact that recoil has on the ability of a person to shoot accurately either. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The cartridge has a big advantage over the .243 Winchester in terms of wind resistance and is almost equal to the 6.5 Creedmoor in that regard. [], What is a 7mm PRC? Wild. Read More . JavaScript is disabled. Find the perfect load for your rifle and shoot accurately. While competition shooters were quick to adopt the new cartridge, the small benefits it offers over more established calibers like the .243 Winchester probably arent significant enough to justify making the switch for most hunters during normal times. But what does that mean for terminal ballistics? On the other hand, the .243 Winchester has a longer case length, but a shorter overall length than the other two cartridges. HunterMann Well-Known Member LRH Team Member Joined Jan 18, 2021 It can accomodate the newer, longer and heavier 6mm bullets that offer good ballistic coefficients, whilst still shooting them a fast muzzle velocities without too much recoil. The 6.5 Creedmoor is slightly larger and more powerful than the other two cartridges. Case in point. The 6mm Creedmoor also has about 7% more energy at the muzzle and about 27% more energy remaining at 500 yards than the .243 Winchester with the ELD-X bullets and about 14-17% advantage in energy with the InterLock bullets. A few years later, Gardner was brainstorming ideas on how to gain an advantage in the new Precision Rifle Series competition (PRS) that was rapidly growing in popularity and remembered the project hed worked on with Snow. Top Precision Rifle Shooter Bryan Zolnikov Talks With LoadDevelopment.com. The 6mm Creed is anout .030 longer than the 6XC. 6ARC will be cool if Howa ever sells it as a barreled action on their mini action. Find Reply Dino11 Member Posts: 350 Threads: 33 Joined: Jul 2020 #2 You are using an out of date browser. The 6mm Creedmoor can be seen as the replacement for the .243 Winchester, so all the animals that was generally considered fine to be hunter with it, the 6mm Creedmoor can be used to hunt with just as well. Initially to create 6mm Creedmoor brass cases, one would simply neck down high quality 6.5 Creedmoor brass with a good full length sizing die and enough case lube. Lastly, I am . 6mm GT vs 6mm Creedmoor The 6mm GT offer similar mag-fed reliability to the 6mm Creedmoor, with similar velocities, but with slightly less propellant, and is able to use the more forgiving propellants which make the 6mm GT slightly easier for load development with new barrels. I just just spoke to him yesterday and that's what he said he was getting with factory out of his 14.5 suppressed. That being said, remember that the 6mm Creedmoor only offers a small upgrade in performance over the other two cartridges. The 6 Creed wins every time, if we are talking velocities. At 1,000 yards, the 6mm Creedmoor drifts about a foot more than the 6 . If you dont see something you like below, dont fret too much. There are a few things that could potentially shorten its lifespan, but there are also many factors that suggest it will be around for a long time. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. But what does that mean for terminal ballistics? The statistics shown above demonstrate the advanced speed capabilities of the 6mm ARC. Proprietary parts other than the float tube so you'll have to have one built if you go this route. The vast majority of shooters use their rifles for hunting, so we will focus on that application here. We still have a long way to go and selection is still nowhere near where it was back in 2019, but things are a lot better now than they were even 6 months ago. With the numbers we use, it appears these cartridges each have their advantages. The question of whether or not the new ARC will last has been on everyones mind since it was first announced. And max velocity can be achieved with stick powders in CM. I know of several instances of people that Ive known who have bought new rifles in a particular cartridge specifically because they could get ammo for it. So, take all that for what you will. The new 6mm ARC from Hornady is currently gaining huge popularity as the newest 6mm on the block, and although it has its merits, ballistically it does not come close to the 6mm Creedmoor ballistics as it cannot hold nearly as much propellant. Just playing in GRT, 6ARC would get 2400ish and the 6CM would get 2700ish. For the the heavier bullets like the 108gr ELD-Match, Hornady recommends 1-8 inch twist barrel, which is what I am also shooting them with in my PRS 6mm Creedmoor rifle and it suits those bullets perfectly. .223 and 5.56 are the same bullet diameter (.224") and basically the same brass. Posted: 3/17/2020 1:36:19 PM EST [#2] Quote History . Depending on how much shorter he actually made it, this could be the case as the rare wildcat 244 Mashburn cartridge also had the same rim, also very little tape in the case body, and also featured a 30 degree shoulder, but this again could not be verified other than that claim.