Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. This works, but it's not optimal. Your link has been automatically embedded. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. At 3500m, you have half the drag you'd have at the surface; at 7km, 1/4 the drag, at 10.5km, 1/8 the drag, etc. Note that keeping the plane weight low is critical, only carry a very small amount of fuel. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. You could try combining the two. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. Your link has been automatically embedded. I currently have a contract where I'm asked to take crew reports at certain spots on Kerbal at an altitude of 18,000m. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. It is designed to aid in player-controlled flight on generic (space)plane, providing a soft layer between user joystick\keyboard input and control surface outputs. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Really. Sideslip handling. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? Powered by Invision Community. One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. Yes, you can get into that range with the high end stuff (whiplash engines and ram or shock cone air intakes). If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. This is my current best hi alt plane. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly). Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. This is the first version. Once it's in the air, it's stable and easy to fly and manages to fly at altitudes between 11k 12k without problems. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? Privacy Policy. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. Been a while since I've flown stock*, but I've heard that, for maximum efficiency, you want one turbojet for every 7.5 tons, and about four ram intakes for each turbojet. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. But you'll need to unlock: Which cost 300 science. Build a plane or rocket for Kerbal high altitudes, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Screenshot of the Week #85 [Submissions Closed - Vote Now!]. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. With only panthers unlocked I might add. Planes and Altitude differences. :: Kerbal Space Program General Either of the two speeds are to be avoided. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. Fighting oscillations. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. I looked into the .cfg files and there are no special properties allocated to them. So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. Basically I can hit a target altitude of 20,000m but can not maintain it. Kerbin | Kerbal Space Program Wiki | Fandom Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. The Inland Kerbal Space Center itself, being in effect the old Kerbal Space Center from 0.2. EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? Chapter 4. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. What are the altitudes for the various altitude record contracts? Pasted as rich text. Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. TroubleshootingMechJebPVG - KSP-RO/RP-0 GitHub Wiki Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? That's because wings need to have some AoA to the airstream in order to generate much lift. Kerbal Space Program 2 . In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. What plane in existence can fly at the highest altitude, and - Quora If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. My plane has turbojets and lots of fuel, but I am wondering what the optimal way to fly is. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. Range with this method is pretty short due to drag. Clear editor. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. I am currently designing a mission that will involve several very long distance plane flights. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. 20 votes, 21 comments. This can make it a good alternative for when you want something that can be controllable and doesn't need excessive heat shielding, but still need to be able to go incredibly fast if necessary, at the expense of increased fuel consumption. Powered by Invision Community. The other one I stay around 6000 meters. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Have a plane that ditches its wings and rockets up to 18km once you reach the right point. This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. As long a you can fly faster, the lower density at altitude can be compensated for. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. Pasted as rich text. You can do that by right-clicking the engine and clicking "Toggle Mode." Yes. Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. Clear editor. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. You can post now and register later. And it's stock, unfortunately. Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). Typically, I watch my Apoapsis as I boost to the high altitude, and there's enough momentum to coast to the peak before completely running out of fuel. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. Right now, my big, fat plane has trouble breaking 10 km altitude and 200 m/s forward speed (largely due to its payload). You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. But you'll need to unlock: High Altitude Flight Which cost 300 science. High altitude (~20km) possible with normal plane engines? The U-2's published maximum altitude is somewhere above 74,000 feet. All rights reserved. "Whiplash" Turbojet. Content titles and body; Content titles only If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. In KSP2, you are a rocket scientist who must build and test rockets, spaceships, and planes. Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. High altitude planes - Kerbal Space Program Forums Jet engine - Kerbal Space Program Wiki Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. 101 kPa 1 atm Scale Height 5000 m Atmospheric Height 69 077.553 m 1.010-6 atm Minimum Temprature -40.19 C 232.96 K Maximum Temprature 20 C 293.15 K Oxygen Present Yes Contents 1 Kerbin 2 Topography 3 Kerbal Space Center 4 Atmosphere 4.1 The Troposphere 4.2 The Stratosphere 4.3 The Thermosphere 4.4 The Exosphere 5 The Kerbin System 5.1 The Mun probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. Paste as plain text instead, At the equator, sea level temperatures vary between a nighttime low of 9 C and a daytime high of 15 C. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. Clear editor. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Note that you need to activate the afterburner ("Wet Mode") manually. As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Third, which I haven't given a good try, would be a carefully-timed deorbit maneuver so you come down through your desired location as you fall from space. The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k. This means it is better to have excessive amounts of oxygen than not to. Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). There are two factors to that: how thick the air is, how fast the ship is going. Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? In addition to the traditional giant tube of explosions that flings things up high approach, Kerbal Space Program includes a very useful piece of equipment that became quite popular in the 20th century: wings.. But maybe your patience? Ep. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. How to make a loop for linear actuator in Kerbal Space Program, Breaking Ground. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. With the tanks disconnected that way, the rockets don't leach from the jets. Upload or insert images from URL. I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. Cookie Notice Thanks for the help! I don't have any exact numbers for you, but you can right-click an engine in flight and it will show both current and optimal airflow, which should hopefully let you work out the best altitude. They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. Any of my search term words; All of my search term words; Find results in. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. You can post now and register later. Highest and fastest possible is best. its rather flat but its a solid surface. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. Paste as plain text instead, Valve Corporation. Evidence. The most obvious solution is try and optimize your craft for high altitude lift by giving it long wingspan like a U-2 spyplane. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. : : . I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. It only takes a minute to sign up. It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. Air temperatures vary with latitude and time of day. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Plane - Kerbal Space Program Wiki A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. Air Intake) and how fast your aircraft ultimately flies (air resistance/altitude)! This thread is quite old. And how many km can I expect to get per v (as calculated by Engineer redux Kerbin atmospheric stats, I know this is weird with planes)? Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. Isn't that backwards snark? 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Upload or insert images from URL. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. AoA and G-force moderation. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. Is it even possible? Landing On Laythe Moon Of Jool Kerbal Space Program Youtube If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. You can post now and register later. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . Tutorial: Making the AI fly | BDArmory Wikia | Fandom You get tons of thrust if you put it into "wet" mode, but you lose fuel efficiency. I generally don't fuss with AoI unless I'm making a long range cruiser. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. You cannot paste images directly. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. (the engines will use very little at high altitude anyway). That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. At about 400-500m/s (~15km), the two engines are even. Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? even stranger is that the surface is textured. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. Thankyou all, I now reckon I have a much better understanding of the engines, hopefully that'll translate to better aircraft. She has a horrible turn rate and oscillates a couple of thousand meters at cruise, but it's flyable. Proceed with caution. FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. The longest flight got them down to a little more than half full. Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage high altitude flight :: Kerbal Space Program General Discussions Long distance airplane flight tips? - Kerbal Space Program Forums Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. Its an approximation missing someelements. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? You also need to be going very fast to generate adequate lift at high altitudes and unlike the real U-2, you don't need to fear about overspeeding and destroying the plane. As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. Trying to do something without the right part is long and difficult path. So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. KSP Delta-V Calculator - KSP HOW TO CALCULATE DELTA-V http://www.youtube.com/user/Cruzanak?sub_confirmation=1Quicklinks to topics in this videoJet Engine Concepts: 0:30Air Intakes: 1:13Flameouts: 2:22Control Surfaces: 5:08Flying Tips: 5:57This video will go over everything that you need to know about to design a capable plane that can fly in the thinnest of atmospheres. Redoing the align environment with a specific formatting, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. Your previous content has been restored. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button This thread is quite old. List of altitude levels? - Forums - Kerbal Space Program Forums By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. i dont know what kind of range youre looking for but i would make a significantly smaller plane. Alternatively, you can assign the afterburner toggle (labelled "switch mode") to an action group if you wish to activate it with a hotkey.